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The Petal Throne • View topic - EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?


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 Post subject: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:05 pm 
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So, silly question.
In the Swords and Glory vol. 1 Tekumel Source Books, there is the implication that there is a Book 3 [Sections 1.900 Customs (etc.) thru 1.12 (Scripts)]. I have never yet seen or heard of an actual copy of the book. Even eBay or Amazon doesn't list it.
Does this book exist?

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 Post subject: Re: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
I'm not sure if Different Worlds actually published the 3rd book or not. Tita's House of Games produced a reprint of it though, so maybe they did. The reprint is available for purchase
http://www.tekumel.com/tita/swords.html
http://www.tekumel.com/tita/pricelist.html

The information from Book 3 is available. The original version of the Sourcebook, published by Gamescience, is a single volume includes all the information that Different Worlds divided into 3 books. It was sold along with an 11x17 double-sided map. Diff Worlds added art, and a map of the provincial boundaries in Book 2, and laid out the text more readably, but the original text all comes from the Gamescience edition. They also shrank the map and included it on the pages of their Book 1. Tita's also reproduced Gamescience's complete one-volume sourcebook, and has copies of that for sale as well.
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 Post subject: Re: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:47 am 
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Thanks Epengar. I appreciate it.
I'll follow that up, although I was under the impression that Tita's had severed it's relationship with Tekumel [I read that somewhere]. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:30 am 
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Tita's House of Games is still selling Tekumel publications. According to their website, Professor Barker cancelled his publication contract with them a couple of years ago. That meant Tita's couldn't produce any new publications, neither more reprints of old works or new content such as the Seal of the Imperium fanzine. They can still sell the stock they have and continue to do so, though for many things they are down to just a few copies. The most recent update to their pricelist is March of this year.
http://www.tekumel.com/tita/
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 Post subject: Re: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:25 am 
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I don't know if it's just me, but I don't understand how a game setting can continue when the only sources of materials keep drying up. I've been a fan of the game since TSR published the original EPT. I bought the Gamescience books. I got a ton of EPT stuff, and would like to buy more, but what's the point when a workable set of rules can't be produced. Well, that's not exactly accurate. I did like Gardasiyal.
The simple fact is that I don't really see a future for the setting, which is really sad.
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 Post subject: Re: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:44 pm 
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I just ran a game at a convention and the players that experienced the setting for the first time fell in love with it. A setting need not die because it doesn't have a RPG in print associated with it. You can port a setting into your RPG of choice with a little bit of elbow grease (or a Google search if someone has done it already).

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 Post subject: Re: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:56 pm 
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No, an RPG isn't required, but I would not know anything about EPT if I hadn't picked up my copy of the original game back at the GenCon where it was released. But here is the rub.

Some time ago there was a wealth of background stuff for EPT on the web for free. Now it's only available for purchase via PDF download. None of it is available in game stores or any other source that I know of. In other words, there is almost no way that someone is going to be exposed to the game unless one knows someone involved in it (a small and seemingly shrinking group) or stumbles across a game at a con.

Most of the information you come across on the Internet gives one the impression that the setting is incredibly difficult to run. Unfortunately the only person who I've come across who didn't project this was, surprisingly, Professor Barker himself. He emphasized that you had to make Tekumel "your own." That's the course I took with mine. My campaign has been going on since 1975. I used the OEPT, tried a conversion of Mayfair's "D6" system, and finally,and what I'm still using, a Gardasiyal/Swords & Glory fusion.

I've seen people get interested in the setting, but where do you send them. This site is a good start, but it's basically an introduction. There is a wealth of information in the Blue Room archive, but it's pretty much unusable to the neophyte. There are some sourcebook information out there, but the fact the outlets for it are not easy to find, and the cost might scare off many.

In my opinion what is needed is something like the OEPT. A playable set of rules with enough background information that would let a person get into the game. I haven't seen that since OEPT. What we get is a promise of a game that never happens. What we get is books and material for the world which is available from obscure sources at premium prices. Not exactly a business model for success.

Kind of sad, because I really love the setting.
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 Post subject: Re: EPT [Different Worlds] Book 3?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:44 am 
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
you're far from the first person to make these observations. They seem to recur on the various Tekumel lists and forums once or twice a year. As usual, they seem to assume that there's some company or organization out there looking to revive Tekumel. If you've got the money to invest in a new version of the game, seize the day. Otherwise consider that there isn't anybody out there listening who has the means and interest to use your unsolicited recommendations.

Barker's heirs have formed a non-profit foundation to manage the intellectual property and handle copyrights and licensing. The Tekumel Foundation ( ) is not a business, they don't have the intention, capital or the expertise to produce new games. It took a lot of their limited resources just to employ an intellectual property lawyer to resolve the mess of old contracts that Dr. Barker left behind. Now they seem to be struggling just to manage the enormous archive of Tekumel material the Professor left and get a few pdfs distributed.

Tekumel has had more than it's share of bad luck along with bad business decisions. The most recent game system (Tekumel: Empire of the Petal Throne) was written by fans, who then contracted with an active game publisher, Guardians of Order, to do layout, art, publishing and distribution. Unbeknownst to the writers, GoO was in dire financial shape. They published the gamebook, but without incorporating final edits, and then went out of business within months.

The version before that, Gardasiyal, was fully published, but with a poorly conceived pricing structure, and it had no commercial success.

Before that was Swords & Glory, intended to be in three volumes. The first one, the Tekumel Handbook, had a good print run, the second, the Player's Handbook, had a brief run, the 3rd, the GM's guide, never made it into print. I'm told part of the problem was the loss of an enormous stock of printed volumes to flooding.

There is some good news though. There is a new set of Tekumel rules in the works. The game is called Béthorm, it's been written by Jeff Dee. He's been doing a series of Kickstarters to fund the project, first artwork then he'll do one for the game itself. He's playtesting now, maybe if you contact him you can get in on that...

http://bethorm.com/
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